Comments on: Commas before and in a Series

By: Jane

Jane — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:45:53 +0000

Thank you, Donna!

By: US History Notes

US History Notes — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:31:17 +0000

Just wanted to say thanks for the great post ! Found your blog on Google and I’m happy I did. I’ll be reading you on a regular basis ! Thanks again Thanks,
Donna

By: Jane

Jane — Thu, 07 May 2009 14:55:58 +0000

I agree completely!

By: Bill

Bill — Wed, 06 May 2009 22:15:18 +0000

Every school text I ever used said to use a comma before every item in a series of 3 or more. I have my college writing book right here, and it says to use the comma before and. The exception to the rule is in newspapers and magazine because they like to save space. The comma helps with clarity.

The car lot purchased some new cars. The cars are red, blue, green, black, and white.

If you write-

The cars are red, blue, green, black and white. This looks like the last car is a 2 tone car that is both black and white. This is confusing.

USE the comma!

By: Julie

Julie — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:17:28 +0000

My main reason for searching this site was to determine if the comma before the and is needed in a list of names. I create birth announcements and at the bottom we list the names of the members of the family such as Victor, Melissa, Kevin, Jenna, Olivia, Gabrielle and Hunter. I have always left out the “oxford” comma, but many of my customers ask me about this when they view their proof. Always the comment is “I think there should be a comma before “and”, but I am not sure” I have always told them the “and” replaces that comma (and thought it did in every instance), but after reading all of the above wisdom, I am going to amend my stance and say that it is used when the last two words in the series could be inadvertently joined in the reader’s mind by the word “and” instead of separated as intended. Great examples above. I was taught not to use it, I graduated high school in 1981 and college in 1986. My son is in 5th grade and is taught to use it in every instance. For names, I think it is unnecessary, and feels redundant, but for a list of objects or elements that could be joined - boys and girls, health and safety, the dog, and parent examples, (vs. the dog and parent) I think we have to use it if indeed each is a separate element. Conversely if the last two in the list are joined, my parents, Bart and Jean, then of course we’d leave it out. Thanks everybody!

By: JJ

JJ — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:29:13 +0000

NK, who defines proper English? I would think Oxford University is a fairly authoritarian source on the matter and they say to use the comma - despite the fact that its use is less standard in Britain and the US.

There are cases where the Oxford comma is ambiguous and cases where its omission is ambiguous.

Molly, a painter and a musician…. Is that one person or three?
My dog, Ruffles, and a cat…. Is ruffles my dog or are there three seperate animals?

Many style guides say to use the Oxford Comma. I would not call following these style guides incorrect or lazy.

Most newspaper authorities (AP, New York Times, etc.) request to not use the comma for space reasons. This is not a good reason to set a grammar precedent.

As for the Oxford comma being a new invention, that is just plain false. The debate about whether to use it or not has been around for a long, long time. I learned to use it in the ’80s and I was being taught be 80 year old teachers who wanted things to be done the way they did it as a child. From my understanding the sentiment on this issue has changed several times over the years.

By: Adam G

Adam G — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:21:49 +0000

Thanks for the info.

I also think that the brevity idea (from AP Stylebook) may be applied to commercial advertising, graphic design, and marketing work for commas before and. It seems like a lot of comma exclusions take place in those situations, for space saving and also possibly aesthetical reasons (from what I’ve seen). Anyone else work in those fields?

By: Jane

Jane — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:29:19 +0000

Bravo! Ditto to all your thoughts, Tracie.

By: Tracie

Tracie — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:25:32 +0000

I am an editor, and I believe that using a comma after “and” is most beneficial for a variety of reasons. As a background, I grew up being taught in elementary school through high school you use a comma in a series. For my editing classes in college, we followed the Chicago Manual of Style. The latest edition of Chicago (which is one of the most often used style guides) recommends using the oxford or serial comma. The use of the comma is most helpful to delineating what constitutes a separate entity in a list and also serves to avoid ambiguity. The AP Stylebook, most often used for newspapers and other media, does recommend the comma be omitted before the “and.” I believe this is because AP style focuses more on brevity. Newspapers and the like often have limited space for publication. An extra comma adds extra space to the typesetting. However, I still recommend that for most purposes a comma be used before “and” in a series to avoid ambiguity. That is one of the chief purposes of punctuation and one of the chief rules of writing. Strive for clarity and avoid ambiguity.

By: Jane

Jane — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:58:47 +0000

If a customer doesn’t desire the comma before “and,” then leave it out, of course. However, I find that people are not often aware of this rule and are happy to have the comma added for them.