Comments on: “In and of Itself”

By: Jane

Jane — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 01:53:11 +0000

I can understand your thought on this.

By: Jim

Jim — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:38:33 +0000

I find the phrase “in and of itself” to be pretentious, and it makes me cringe when I here it, like fingernails on a chalk board. It is redundant because you can say “in itself” (heard quite often) or “of itself” (heard much less often). Is far as I can tell, the two mean the same thing, so saying them together is unecessary blather.

By: Jane

Jane — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:39:58 +0000

Yes, you’re right that “alone” would also serve the same function as “in and of itself.”

By: Nick

Nick — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 01:57:28 +0000

Wouldn’t “alone” also serve the same function? For example, “The weather alone was not the cause of the traffic delays”.

I still like using the occasional “in and of itself”, especially in speech. Like it or not, cliched phrases are easier to parse, and phrases in general seem easier to insert into a sentence as you’re synthesizing it.

By: Ursula

Ursula — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:53:30 +0000

Samuel Spriggs,

The first sentence implies that the weather conditions contributed to traffic delays, but was not the sole cause for them. The second sentence simply states that the weather was not a factor in the delays, at all.

By: Jane

Jane — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 17:13:37 +0000

I prefer “If John were more enterprising, he would have disembarked at the previous station” over “If John had been more enterprising…” because this quality in John is current, not in the past. Disembarking at the previous station is simply being used as an example of John’s ongoing lack of enterprise.

By: Nigel

Nigel — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 08:07:06 +0000

I’ve always disliked the phrase ‘in and of itself’. I see it too often in communications both printed (magazine articles) and web sites, blogs etc these days. It was great to to see the discussion here work out a good alternative to this obscure term. I like the form ‘itself’ or maybe ‘in itself’ best.

Another point to join the discussion:
Jane: “If John were more enterprising, he would have disembarked at the previous station” has a change in tense and, to me, should read “If John HAD been more enterprising, he would have disembarked at the previous station”…. or “If John were more enterprising, he would disembark at the previous station”. Depends which tense you’re using.
Any thoughts?

By: Jane

Jane — Mon, 28 Jun 2010 22:47:20 +0000

I agree with you, Gavin.

By: Gavin Spencer

Gavin Spencer — Mon, 28 Jun 2010 22:44:52 +0000

I agree with Ben that simpler is better, but what puzzles me about this little phrase is the utter redundancy of “and of”.

If one wants to add a little emphasis, why not, The weather was not, in itself, the cause of the traffic delays?

By: Jane

Jane — Sun, 27 Jun 2010 17:31:45 +0000

No worries, Tim.