Apostrophes with Words Ending in “s”
While normal people wonder about apostrophes in general, believe it or not, word nerds have heated arguments over whether to use an additional s with singular possession. In this newsletter, you will get the standard, most popular decision among authorities.
Rule: To show singular possession for a word ending in an s or s sound, use the apostrophe and another s.
Examples: the class’s opinion (one class), a bass’s stripes, Marx’s theories, Dickens’s novels
Rule: To show plural possession of a word ending in an s or s sound, form the plural first; then immediately use the apostrophe.
Examples: the classes’ opinions, the basses’ stripes, the Williamses’ car, the Soos’ house, the Marxes’ children
Quiz
Place the apostrophe (and perhaps an s) where appropriate.
1. The classes opinions were predictable according to their grade levels.
2. The lasses clothing differed according to their sewing skills.
3. The lass clothing showed her sewing skills.
4. The class suggestion to go to the science museum was approved by the teacher.
5. The Joneses house survived the flood.
6. The Crosses dog bit the mailman.
7. The Smiths boat sank.
8. Alex rooster woke us up at dawn.
Answers
1. The classes’ opinions were predictable according to their grade levels.
2. The lasses’ clothing differed according to their sewing skills.
3. The lass’s clothing showed her sewing skills.
4. The class’s suggestion to go to the science museum was approved by the teacher.
5. The Joneses’ house survived the flood.
6. The Crosses’ dog bit the mailman.
7. The Smiths’ boat sank.
8. Alex’s rooster woke us up at dawn.
Posted on Friday, January 26th, 2007 at 1:26 am
145 Responses to “Apostrophes with Words Ending in “s””
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I’m sorry, but Ms. Jones owns a house, hence it is Ms. Jones’ house, etc.
“Joneses” as such states that more than member of the Jones familiy is being referred to. Adding (incorrectly) an apostrophe paramount to stating “The hot sun is hot.”
This “new” English or “incorrect English based on general, incorrect usage” is terrible. Or should we all say “He did good” just because so many English speakers use this phrase incorrectly?
One could say “the Jones house” using “Jones” as an adjective. One could also say “I saw the Joneses yesterday” using “Joneses” as a plural. However, one cannot say “the Joneses house” without using an apostrophe. This is a plural possessive so “the Joneses’ house” is correct.
I have come across one very reasonable exception to the rule for single possessive nouns. That exception states that only an apostrophe should be added to form the possessive of ancient names already ending in the “s” sound to which the addition of another “s” sound would produce a very awkward pronunciation.
For example:
Aristophanes’ play
Pericles’ speech
Moses’ staff
Should this exception be widely accepted, or is there another solution for ancient names like these?
You are right about this exception, Chris. You could include Jesus in this list:
Jesus’ teachings
Ok, so I get that it is grammatically correct to leave a ‘ AFTER an s in certain phrases. But why? I mean, what if I had a last name like Sussis, or Sessisses? People probably have a name like that, and what do you say then? Saying “I’m going to the Sussis’ house.” sounds like Sussisses! That’s a major mouthful, don’t you think? It’s just an opinion, but I’ve always wondered about that.
It is both correct to use ‘Mrs Jones’ house’ or ‘Mrs Jones’s house’. In different countries, one is more commonly used than the other. For example, in the UK it is more common usage as ‘Mrs Jones’s house’, in Australia it is ‘Mrs Jones’ house’ but either is sometimes used and neither is incorrect.
When there is a strong s sound to the end of a name, such as Sussis, adding the apostrophe without another s is a simpler and clearer way to go, e.g. ‘The Sussis’ house.’ Writing, ‘The Sussis’s house’ would not be incorrect, just somewhat clumsy, especially for speech. The important thing is the apostrophe to show possessive and whether or not to add another s is one of the few times you can make a choice about the rules of grammar.
Hannah, you’re correct that you can write “Mrs. Jones’ house” or “Mrs. Jones’s house.”
I prefer keeping it simple by suggesting adding the apostrophe and the “s” to all singular possessive names, regardless of the letter they end in.
I teach my students in India the use of the apostrophe for possession by telling them to write down the name of the ‘possessor’, whether singular or plural, then add the apostrophe, and finally add an ‘s’ if the sound requires it. I find that this way they do not get confused about, for example, “children’s, princess’s, the Joneses’….”
Helen, I agree and also teach this method in the Apostrophe Rules section on my web site, http://www.grammarbook.com.
“The Smith’s” would never be correct because “The Smiths” should be plural.
I need more of the context to help you decide between “The Smiths’” and “The Smiths.” If house is implied, you can use “The Smiths’.” Example: There will be a reception at The Smiths’ at 2:00 p.m.
Hi! My question is wedding related. I’m working on RSVP envelopes and they’d like to use i.e. “The Smith’s” , not using the word House afterwards. Is that gramatically correct? They do not want the word “House” used after the last name.
Kirkland and Ellis’s
Which is correct–Kirkland and Ellis’ or …and Ellis’s? It’s a law firm.
Victoria
Which is correct: Kirkland and Ellis’ or Kirkland and Ellis’s (it’s a law firm)?
Victoria
Hi,
If I had to label a photo of 3 of my friends who are named “Chris”.. would this be labelled “My three favourite Chris’s…” or “My three favourite Chris’…” or how should I label this?!
I know usually if it was a singular Chris, we’d use Chris’ ball or Chris’ pencil case, but I’m really confused with the fact there are multiple people with the name Chris!!
Thanks,
Miranda
With plurals of names, you don’t need apostrophes.
“My three favorite Chrises”
Which is correct:
Bob and Joe’s fight
or
Bob’s and Joe’s fight
Bob and Joe’s fight
Since they “co-own” the fight, you need an apostrophe only before the second name.
Which use of the word “chapter” is correct in the following sentence:
I have thirty-one (chapters/chapter’s) in my book.
Thank you,
Jeff Braman
chapters
This is a plural usage, not a possessive usage.
I have another example that comes up at work frequently. Either I’m consistently getting it wrong, or others are. I work at “Something” Industries. When referring to our facilities, people have written:
Something Industries facilities
Something Industrie’s facilities
I have always corrected them with:
Something Industries’ facilities
Please tell me if I am right or wrong. I may be wrong, but if I am, I am not clear on the reasoning. I know you must add the apostrophe to show possession; however, since the word ends in an “s” and “Industries’s” sounds absurd, the only logical solution seems to be the one I suggested.
I am an executive level assistant in my dept. Many of the people who work with me have BS degrees in health physics or related areas. I don’t think they think I know a thing! As it turns out, I have a degree in Communications (with a concentration in PR). Many of my professors tried to convince me to switch to a major in English, but I really was interested in pursuing a communications profession and felt very confident about my spelling and grammar knowledge. I also graduated summa cum laude, which most people don’t know. It’s just interesting how people assume that, because I am not a manager, I know less about everything than them. Hey, I know stuff!
They do the technical portion of their proposals and pass them to me. I organize them and make them sparkle. They do the content; I do the magic.
Elizabeth Hollman
Elizabeth, you’re right; they’re wrong. Doesn’t it feel good to be validated?
For proof, show them Rule 4 of this page: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp
I am giving a door knocker as a gift to a recently married couple… their name is Theos. What is the proper use of plural/possessive? I would think their name would be plural because there are two of them and possessive as it is their house… however I’m struggling with the ending in s?!? And I think a door knoker that reads “The Theoses’” is a bit buch and to me appears to change their last name… Please HELP! Thank you!!!
“The Theoses” is correct. If you don’t like the looks of this, you could use “The Theos Family.” No apostrophe is used because it is not a possessive unless you write “The Theoses’ House.” I hope this helps.
My son has an “ancient” name: Atticus. Should his possession be Atticus’s or Atticus’ (see above comment: Jane 2/4)?
Either is correct. However, I would use Atticus’s for the possessive because you are not referring to the ancient Atticus.
Would it be wrong to write Mrs. Evans’ classroom? Every grammar book I have including MLA materials has contradictory explanations! So frustrating!
It is better to write Evans’s to let people know that the original name was Evans. This is not mandatory, however.
I think the following example comes down to sounding it out:
Possessive of “Smith and Williams” (law firm)?
I know that it could either be Williams’s or Williams’. From what you’ve written and what’s been said in the comments, however, the latter is incorrect as it’s not an ancient name. I think this is a rare exception to this rule. This name when possessive and sounded out is NOT the same as “Kirkland and Ellis’s.”
Do you agree that “Smith and Williams’” is correct? And is there a rule succinctly explaining why?
I agree that Smith and Williams’ is considered acceptable. However, because the name ends in an “s,” one could assume that Williams’ means that the name was William, not Williams. To avoid confusion, I recommend using the apostrophe “s” on all names ending in “s.” I don’t hear any difference between Ellis’s and Williams’s.
See http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp
I’m so glad I found this post and this website! I am getting a
married in January and will be taking on my husband’s last name. I am a stickler for good grammar so I need to know how to use
my new name. I read the whole post and all the comments, but I still just want to double check that I’m right. My new last name will be Myers. Will the plural be Myerses? And the possessive plural is Myerses’ ? And singular plural is Myers’s?
I’m only double checking because it seemed like some things I read were differentiating between names ending in an “s” sound and a “z” sound.
Thank you so much.
Jasmine
You are correct on all counts, Jasmine. Good job!
What about a company name… Waves?
Waves’ television programs
Waves’s television programs
I think the first one seems better, but which would use the best grammar?
Thank you!
If you write “Wave’s television programs,” you are implying that the name is “Wave” rather than “Waves.” Follow the same rule that you would for forming the possessive of common nouns ending in “s.” Therefore, “Waves’s television programs” is correct.
Hi Jane,
My question concerns acronyms that end in “s.” I work for a Board of Cooperative Educational Services (BOCES, pronounced BO-seas) and I write technical bids for our schools. I am currently writing one on behalf of two BOCES and am concerned about the proper use of the apostrophe in plural form here. To say “Orange and Sullivan BOCES’s networks” is very clumsy, especially since no one pronounces it that way, regardless of possesion.
So, which is correct; BOCES’, BOCES’s, or BOCESes’.
Thank you!
Bob
Bob, this is tricky because the plural of Board of Cooperative Educational Services is actually Boards of Cooperative Educational Services. Therefore, it would be better if you could write “Orange and Sullivan Boards’ networks.” The other tricky aspect is that BOCES is really being used as an adjective here rather than as a possessive noun. Therefore, you could also write, “Orange and Sullivan BOCES networks.” Either of these two choices would be much better than any of the options you intuitively dislike.
If i have a sentance that reads “At least annually, the partners review the firms human resources policies….) Would firms be as it is, or would it be firm’s, or firms’. Probably easy for most, but very confusing to me.
Thanks.
“At least annually, the partners review the firm’s human resources policies.” Firm is singular possessive in this sentence.
Oh, thank you so much, I really appreciate the quick reply.
I’ve decided to name my son Brooks but I’m still having a hard time figuring out what is correct.
Brooks’ looks right to me.
Brookses just looks very odd and wasn’t how I was taught..
Brookses’ still doesn’t feel right.
Then there’s Brooks’s….
With the examples in previous comments, there are a couple options and seems like all are correct but example 1 is the only one that feels right to me.
Any suggestions?
Help!
Brooks looks right to/at me.
Brooks looks very odd.
Brooks still doesn’t feel right.
Then there’s Brooks…
Don’t use apostrophes for your son’s name or it will seem as though the name is Brook, not Brooks.
I too am getting married. My new name will be Ables. So pleural will be Ableses? Singular possessive will be Ables’s and pleural possessive Ableses’?
Thanks
Plural of Ables is Ableses. Singular possessive is Ables’s. Plural possessive is Ableses’. Note: “pleural” should be “plural.”
Examples: Mrs. Ables’s dog, The Ableses’ house, I went to the Ableses for dinner last night.
Congratulations on your marriage!
I’d love to know the plural of ‘haus’. I realise this is not an english word, but i’m using it as a product name. would the plural be haus’ ? or hauses?
I’ve written it as haus’ for months [with the apostrophe after the s, simply because it looks better] and then someone else wrote it as hauses.
So confusing! I’d love to know which is correct or if, in fact, both are acceptable.
Thank you in advance.
The plural of a word ending in an “s” is to add an “es.” Therefore, the plural of “haus” is “hauses.” The apostrophe would indicate possession, not plural.
My friend’s last name is Jones. When i write about his house where “Jones” would mean the entire family, which one is correct?
The Jones’ House or The Joneses’ House.
I am a bit confused because i have seen both these forms used a lot and not sure whether both are accepted as correct.
the Joneses’ house
From GrammarBook.com Apostrophes Rule 4
To show plural possession, make the noun plural first. Then immediately use the apostrophe.
Examples:
two boys’ hats
two women’s hats
two actresses’ hats
two children’s hats
the Changs’ house
the Joneses’ golf clubs
Where would the apostrophe go in this instance? — Invest in Kids board chair
Invest in Kids is the name of an organization. I think it should be Invest in Kids’ but I keep going back and forth! Any help would be appreicated
If you are referring to the Chairperson of the Board, write it this way: Invest in Kids Board Chair.
What is the correct punctuation for a yearbook heading that says:
“Grade Tens”.
Why not call it Grade Ten? If you are going to pluralize Ten, then don’t use an apostrophe.
if it was not like copy print and was like a game type you guys know what i mean like a quiz it would have been better.
Thank you for your suggestion. There is an additional free quiz on apostrophes here:
http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar_quiz/apostrophes_1.asp.
The subscription quiz area contains several more.
What is the singular possessive of the following words? Please help me.
Eskimo, clothes, and scissors.
What is the Plural for of the words: salmon and louse.
Also what is the plural possessive of the words: Pliers, passerby, hero, louse, and ox.
I have been trying to figure out these words for about a week, so please help me.
Singular possessives:
eskimo’s
Clothes and scissors have no singular form. This type of word is called a “plurale tantum,” which is Latin for “plural only.” Thus the possessive forms would be clothes’ and scissors’.
Plurals:
salmon
lice
Plural Possessive:
pliers’
passersby’s
heroes’
lice’s
oxen’s
My wife and I had quite a discussion about this. I was utterly convinced that anytime a word ends in “s”, the possessive should have an apostrophe, sans the extra “-s”.
From the discussion, I can see it rightly, now…
If I were talking about something belonging to multiple persons named “William”:
EX – It’s a funny thing, most Williams’ personalities are very similar.
[there is NO extra "-s" in the possessive because the singular is William, which is plural in the sentence]
But, if I were talking about something belonging to a single person with the name Williams:
EX – Mr. Williams’s flowers are the best in the neighborhood.
[there is an extra "-s" in the possessive because the singular is Williams, which is NOT plural in the sentence]
And, if I were talking about a group of persons with the name Williams:
EX – Those Williamses are a very caring bunch; we should invite them over.
[the plural of Williams adds an "-es" to the end]
Lastly, if I were talking about something belonging to a group of persons with the name Williams:
EX – The Williamses’ two dogs are so spoiled, they have their own personal masseur and masseuse.
[there is NO extra "-s" in the possessive because the singular is Williams, which is plural in the sentence]
Alas, I will have to concede that my wife was more correct than I. Though, I do so without chagrin.
Thanks to everyone for clarifying!
Yes, you’ve got it!
So, Ross (as in a family) would be:
Plural: Rosses
Plural Possessive: Rosses’
But for one of the family, it would be Ross’s?
Yes, you are correct.
I was surprised to read in the March 2011 Newsweek magazine several words ending in s had the ‘s ending. One word was on the cover and I thought that someone had made a major mistake. I can’t remember ever seeing or reading that to be correct. I am graduated nearly 47 years ago and have never known that to be correct spelling. That is why I am now on this site checking the rules. Is this a “new” rule as in the past decade or so? I work in an office and over the years have read a great many reports but never s’s used. I can’t wait until next week’s staff meeting.
Since you did not give any specific examples, I cannot comment on the words that you thought were misspelled. If the word ended in an s and it was a singular possessive, then the ‘s would be correct. I do not believe this to be a new rule.
I am having shirts made for my husband & myself. They are going to say Lucus’ Mom & Lucus’ Dad. Is This correct? Should it be Lucus’s instead?
It should say “Lucus’s Mom & Lucus’s Dad.”
Could someone give me some guidance for my wedding invites? My invite designer wrote “Sarah and Chris’ wedding” on our response cards. Is this correct beacuse together we are plural? My grammar instincts are telling me it should be Sarah and Chris’s. Maybe I should just change it to Chris and Sarah’s
. Thank you in advance for any advice!
If two people possess the same item, an apostrophe and s is used. Since the wedding belongs to both of you, you are correct. It should read “Sarah and Chris’s wedding.”
Hi,
What would be the correct grammar if I were referring to a menu item at T.G.I. Friday’s. Would I write T.G.I. Friday’s’ chicken tenders or T.G.I. Fridays’s chicken tenders or something completely different? Thank you.
T.G.I. Friday’s chicken tenders should be fine, especially for informal writing. Some may argue that T.G.I. Friday’s's chicken tenders should be technically correct but it certainly looks odd. The safest route would be to rearrange the phrase as The chicken tenders at T.G.I. Friday’s.
Many thanks to Jane for the help and answers – this site is great.
Here’s my sentence (and my predicament):
“Please provide the vehicle identification numbers of the department’s Trans Ams and LeMans.”
Would Trans Am get an apostrophe? Trans Am’s
What about LeMans (which is the vehicle name)? I think LeMans’.
Thank you!
Please provide the vehicle identification numbers of the department’s Trans Ams and LeManses. Since the cars are simple plurals, not possessives, there is no need for apostrophes.
I was writing an essay on a test and ended up in a weird apostrophe situation.
What do I do here:
The dog colored the woman(‘s?), Mary(‘s?), carpet a deep yellow.
My first inclination was to put the apostrophe s on Mary, thats how we say it, but then I tried to read the sentence without “Mary’s” in it and it didn’t make sense. Woman’s, Mary’s seems awkward, and woman’s, Mary seems off too.
Later, I tried to look at the apostrophe s problem from a different perspective altogether and found a similar problem:
The dog(‘s?), Fido(‘s), running quickly, hoping to escape.
Here I was trying to use the apostrophe s as a contraction for “dog is.” I know that if it we weren’t using the contraction it would be “The dog, Fido, is running quickly, hoping to escape.” but, I don’t see how to make the transition.
Oh! Also, in this sentence what is the grammatical term for “Mary” and “Fido”? A clarifying clause?
Thanks in advance for the help.
In general, essay tests call for a formal writing style. Your sentences could easily be reworded as:
The dog colored Mary’s carpet a deep yellow. (Leave out the woman’s; it’s unnecessary.)
The dog Fido is running quickly, hoping to escape.
or
Fido’s running quickly, hoping to escape.
In these cases, Mary’s is an adjective and in the second sentence Fido is the subject.
Help! I have a problem one teacher is saying the name should be
Davis’s class the other is Lutins’ Class should they be different in the same publication? Both names are plural and I think they are both right!
the names are Davis and Lutins. Please help this is for the yearbook!!
You say that the names are Davis and Lutins, however, you say the names are plural. Plural means more than one. Are you saying that there are two or more persons with the same name? I am guessing not, so “Davis’s class” and “Lutins’s class” would be the correct usage.
Could the word Thanks ever be used as plural possessive such as Thanks’?
I cannot think of any case where thanks would be a plural possessive.
I am monogramming something for a family last name is Anderson. Would it be The Anderson’s or The Andersons?
The monogram should read “The Andersons.”
My daughter is getting married and is working on her invitations and address labels. Her last name will be Tannis. According to all of your examples and explanations….are the following correct for each circumstance? (I’m a little surprised at some of the examples above…I taught elementary school for 29 years and taught the rule that if the word already ended in an s…just add the apostrophe.)
singular- Tannis – My last name is Tannis.
singular possessive- Tannis’s – Joe Tannis’s shoes are black.
plural- Tannises- The Tannises are coming to our house.
plural possessive: Tannises’- The Tannises’ dogs are mean.
How would an address label read? The Tannises ? The Tannis’ (implying house)
You are correct:
Singular is Tannis
Singular possessive is Tannis’s
Plural is Tannises
Plural possessive is Tannises’
The address label could read “The Tannises” or “The Tannis Family.”
Regarding the practice of just adding an appostrophe to a word already ending in s, “Though easy to apply and economical, such usage disregards pronunciation and is therefore not recommended by Chicago Manual of Style.”
I work in the office of preschool, and Nicholas has become a very popular student name. A teacher requested that I make a label “Nicholas’ Treasured Memories” after I had given her “Nicholas’s Treasured Memories.” Although I was frustrated by the request, I gave in. Should I have stuck to my grammar or was she correct in requesting the change? Thank you!
You certainly were placed in a difficult position. Some writers and publishers prefer the system of omitting the possessive ‘s on all words and names ending in s, however, such usage does disregard the pronunciation of the word or name as well as the practice recommended by most authoritative sources including The Chicago Manual of Style. Maybe you could gently direct the teacher’s attention to my website and to the Note in Rule 2 in Apostrophes which says:
NOTE: Although names ending in s or an s sound are not required to have the second s added in possessive form, it is preferred.
I have often seen words such as Missions Reception used as
Mission’s Reception, Missions’ Reception and Missions Reception.
Which is correct. This is for a missions banquet.
Pastors’ book club, or can I say Pastors book club, without the ‘ as the end?
Use of an apostrophe indicates possession. The ‘s or s’ would indicate ownership of the reception or book club by either one (‘s) or more than one (s’) mission or pastor, respectively. Using the reasoning presented in the blog entitled “Confusing Possessives,” your guess is as good as anyone’s as to whether an apostrophe should be used or not, especially with Missions Reception. In the case of the book club, if it clearly refers to a club at one church with one pastor, I would opt for “Pastor’s book club” or even more specifically, “Pastor John’s book club.”
I’m getting married in September and I’m putting together a guestbook. My new last name will be Balderrama. On the spine I’d like to write “The Balderramas” Is that correct? My fiancé insists it should be “The Balderrama’s” I know it’s his last name, but I’m thinking I’m in the right here
Yes, you are correct unless you were to write “The Balderramas’ Guest Book.” Then you would need an appostrophe to indicate possession. If you are just meaning this book is for or about more than one person named Balderrama, it would be “The Balderramas.”
I am a teacher….and my last name is Gass so would i say “Miss Gass’s Classroom” or is it correct to say “Miss Gass’ Classroom” ?
According to the note under Rule 2, “Although names ending in s or an s sound are not required to have the second s added in possessive form, it is preferred.” Therefore, “Miss Gass’s Classroom” would be the preferred spelling.
If i am trying to say Mikes children yell, would i put Mike’s or Mikes children yell.
You would use an appostrophe before the s to show possession (belonging to Mike).
Mike’s children yell.
This is a much debated rule amongst family and friends. Glad for this to be cleared up. It’s also nice to see even professional grammarians make mistakes, (Quiz Question 8: “…get up at down”) or would that be in the vocabulists’ or lexicographers’ realm?
Yes, even grammarians are guilty of typographical errors. Thanks for pointing it out. The error is now fixed!
I am writing out thank you cards for my daughter and I want to use the word princess instead of daughter. I am not sure if I should add an ‘s or just the ‘
ex: Thank you for joining us in celebrating our princess’s 1st birthday
thank you in advanced
To show singular possession for a word ending in an s or s sound, use the apostrophe and another s.
“Thank you for joining us in celebrating our princess’s first birthday.”
I see you deleted my comment, but corrected your error. Sad that you deleted my comment, but good that you corrected my error. Thank goodness for “print screen.”
Your comment was not deleted. It just had not been approved yet. Every comment that appears on our blog has to go through an approval process which can take several days. It also has to be answered before it can appear on the blog. The typo was fixed.
how about writing -’s worlds biggest..-. I’m unable to find rules how to apply apostrophes in front of a noun
Rule 2 in the “Apostrophes” section says, “Use the apostrophe to show possession. Place the apostrophe before the s to show singular possession.”
Since “world’s biggest” is singular possessive, you need to use ‘s regardless of which noun follows it.
I am having a picture frame engraved for a wedding gift. They are asking for the plural of their last name. Their last name is Arps. Would the plural be “The Arpses”? There will be nothing written but “The Arpses”.
Since you are meaning that the frame is for more than one person named Arps, it would be “The Arpses.”
Do you know when the single possessive on nouns ending in ‘s’ changed from ‘s to s’s? I know that in the Chicago Style Manual the change was accepted in the 15th edition (2003) and finalized in the 16th edition (2010). Turabian had the change in the 2007 7th edition (and I believe in the 6th as well).The Gregg Reference Manual shows this change as finalized (no other method may be used) in 2003.
So, when did it begin?
We may not be able to pinpoint exactly when this shift began. The rules for using apostrophes are continuously evolving. Each style manual seems to have different rules and some still do not recommend this change. For example, AP Stylebook says, “Singular proper names ending in s: Use only an apostrophe.” Since there is disagreement between the different style guides, this is probably one of the more flexible “rules.” In my opinion, Chicago Manual of Style has the best explanation in commenting on using only an apostrophe: “Though easy to apply and economical, such usage disregards pronunciation and is therefore not recommended by Chicago Manual of Style.”
What about showing possession when referring to a song written by The Beatles?
I know that one may write “Grieg’s Nocture in C” or “Schumann’s Traumerei” but would it be correct to write “The Beatles’s Eleanor Rigby”? Or “The Beatles’ Eleanor Rigby”?
Thanks!
Since “The Beatles” is already plural, you would just need to add the apostrophe, therefore, “The Beatles’ Eleanor Rigby” is correct.
I am at odds with some over the proper use of an apostrophe in this instance. I have designed a brochure and I believe it should read:
Heritage Baptist Church Presents Our 9th One Day Ladies Seminar
someone else believes it should read
Heritage Baptist Church Presents Our 9th One Day Ladies’ Seminar
I think the apostrophe makes it appear that the Ladies own the seminar, while my version has “ladies” being the adjective. What do you think?
It appears that either one would be acceptable. For example, there is the Ladies Professional Golf Association but note the apostrophe in Ladies’ Home Journal. AP Stylebook says, “Do not add an apostrophe to a word ending in s when it is used primarily in a descriptive sense: citizens band radio, a Cincinnati Reds infielder, a teachers college, a Teamsters request, a writers guide.”
On the other hand, Chicago Manual of Style says, “The line between a possessive or genitive form and a noun used attributively—to modify another noun—is sometimes fuzzy, especially in the plural. Although terms such as employees’ cafeteria sometimes appear without an apostrophe, Chicago dispenses with the apostrophe only in proper names (often corporate names) that do not use one or where there is clearly no possessive meaning:
children’s rights, farmers’ market, women’s soccer team, boys’ clubs, taxpayers’ associations (or taxpayer associations), consumers’ group (or consumer group), but Publishers Weekly, Diners Club.”
You could argue that “ladies” is a descripitive word, or that it is a seminar for ladies, therefore providing a case for either one. Also, since one-day is a phrasal adjective (compound modifier) describing the seminar, I would recommend use of a hyphen.
What about a noun ending in s, with the same singular and plural form.
For example the flower, Cosmos. I think the singular and plural are the same.
Singular: This Cosmos’s petals are brightly colored.
Plural: Cosmos’ petals are usually brightly colored.
Thanks!
The singular is cosmos and the plural can be either cosmos or cosmoses.
According to Rule 1 in this “Apostrophes with Words Ending in s” blog, “To show singular possession for a word ending in an s or s sound, use the apostrophe and another s.” Therefore, the singular possessive would be cosmos’s.
To show plural possession of a word ending in an s or s sound, form the plural first; then immediately use the apostrophe. The correct plural possessive would be cosmos’ or cosmoses’.
Thus, you were right!
Which is correct:
it has its moments
it has it’s moments
my train of logic says it’s. not as in it is, but to show ownership of the moments. thanks in advace
For this special word, it’s only means it is and ownership or possession is expressed by its without the apostrophe! Therefore, “it has its moments.”
I don’t understand why people use apostrophe s for pluralizing. Even when I type “thank yous” as a plural spell-check wants it to be “thank-you’s”. I see this a lot and don’t know if it is wrong or fine. Examples: CD’s, numbers such as 4′s, etc. There are no letters missing and it’s not possessive.
You are correct: this is a very common error. As Rule 11 in our “Apostrophes” section of the Blue Book and website states, “The plurals for capital letters and numbers used as nouns are not formed with apostrophes.” The exception is when the meaning would be unclear otherwise such as with A’s or 0′s (you don’t mean the words As or Os). Similarly, there would be no confusion leaving out the apostrophe with thank you. In more formal writing you could avoid this problem by writing out thank-you cards or thank-you notes.
This one keeps coming up at work and we cannot figure out which to use:
He is a patient of Dr. Smith or He is a patient of Dr. Smith’s ?
I have found where they say you should rearrange the sentence so it is not an “of” sentence, but if we were to leave it as is, which would be the correct?
Thanks!
You are correct that it is best to limit the number of prepositional phrases, so the best choice would be Dr Smith’s patient. If you leave the sentence as is, a patient of Dr. Smith is correct.
How do you write the abbreviation of photograph’s? Is it photos’ or photo’s or photos?
The abbreviation of the plural word photographs is photos.
Example: He takes nice wedding photos.
Since you asked about photgraph’s with an appostrophe (the singular possessive form), the abbreviation of that word is photo’s.
Example: That photo’s corner is bent.
Hi Jane! What about when the owner comes at the end of the sentence?
Is it:
The football was Allister’s. The parrot was Nicola’s.
Or
The football was Allisters. The parrot was Nicolas.
“It was decided that the victory – after a particularly long and arduous football match – was Manchester United’s.”
Am I right in using an apostrophe here?
If the owner comes at the end of the sentence you still need the possessive form which uses an apostrophe.
The football was Allister’s.
The parrot was Nicola’s. (“The parrot was Nicolas” would mean that the name of the parrot was Nicolas!)
It was decided that the victory – after a particularly long and arduous football match – was Manchester United’s.
I think this has always had a flexible rule for words ending in “s”, but students (at least in my university years in the late 80′s to mid-90′s) and grammar books of the time advised to be consistent thoughout one’s work.
I think the leaning back then was NOT to use an s-apostrophe-s (and just go with the lone apostrophe for a singular noun ending in s), where as now, the leaning IS to use the extra s after the apostrophe.
I’ve always loved grammar and when I married a man in 1994 and changed my last name to one that ended in S, I researched it thoroughly so I would know how to handle the situation when it arose.
Back then, I decided to go with:
singular Willis
plural Willises
singular possessive Willis’
plural possessive Willises’
After seeing s’s used in so many publications (and it still makes me cringe)– I thought it was time to review what is accepted– and learned that while the rule is STILL a bit foggy, I would probably now be considered MORE correct if I went with the singular possessive of Willis’s.
I do agree, however, with one of the earliest posters that stated that when enough people start to forget grammar rules, the rules change to accomodate them. (“dumbing down” language)– The perfect example is “ain’t”. I grew up being told by teachers that “Ain’t ain’t a word because it ain’t in the dictionary”– and now, if you pick up a dictionary, you will find that it is!
(I have not looked to see if such words as “lite” for light or “donut” for doughnut have been included yet, but if they haven’t been, it is probably just a matter of time! Who knows what texting will do to our “proper and accepted” rules!)
Yes, the dumbing down, er, I mean the evolution of the English language continues. “Lite” and “donut” are both recognized in the dictionary as variants of “light” and “doughnut.” Some of the texting phrases (such as LOL) are listed, but they are considered abbreviations.
Hi,
Question for you: We want to have a sign made that has says:
Evans’s Wine Bar…..
is that the correct way to spell and punctuate?
or is it Evanses’ Wine Bar……
Please help!!
thanks.
Mark
The rules in the “Apostrophes with Names Ending in s, ch, or z” section of our blog state, “To show the plural of a name that ends in s, ch, or z, add es. To show plural possession of a name ending in s, ch, or z, form the plural first; then immediately use the apostrophe.”
The Evanses’ Wine Bar is correct.
I have still some doubts. I learned English in England and I remember being taught that words that end with “s” in possessive situations you just add the apostrophe with no “s”.
Jones’ cat
Holmes’ friend
My brothers’ things (as in two brothers)
I teach American English at a school, and I came across an american version of a Sherlock Holmes novel and I read something like Sherlock Holmes’s and now I am utterly confused! Is there any chance you can help me figure this out!?
The rules for using apostrophes are continuously evolving. In America, each style manual seems to have different rules. Since there is disagreement between the different style guides, this is probably one of the more flexible “rules.” In my opinion, Chicago Manual of Style has the best explanation in commenting on using only an apostrophe: “Though easy to apply and economical, such usage disregards pronunciation and is therefore not recommended by Chicago Manual of Style.” In the case of plural possessives, form the plural first; then immediately use the apostrophe:
Bill Jones’s cat (or, in the case of the Jones family, the Joneses’ cat)
Sherlock Holmes’s friend (or, in the case of the Holmes family, the Holmeses’ friend)
my brothers’ things (two brothers)
Is it Sipylus’s main site or Sipylus’ main site?
Trying to update HTML meta tag with the info.
The first rule in this “Apostrophes with Words Ending in s” blog states, “To show singular possession for a word ending in an s or s sound, use the apostrophe and another s.” Therefore, Sipylus’s main site is correct.
Hi there,
I am doing a gender reveal invitation. It is to find out the gender of baby Fitzsimmons. Do I write it as:
Baby Fitzsimmons’s Gender Reveal
Or
Baby Fitzsimmons Gender Reveal
Since it is a singular possessive (the gender reveal of the baby), “Baby Fitzsimmons’s Gender Reveal” is correct.
How about the name ‘Edwards’?
Mr. Edwards’ Room?
or
Mr. Edwards’s Room?
The note under Rule 2 of our “Apostrophes” section states, “Although names ending in s or an s sound are not required to have the second s added in possessive form, it is preferred.” Therefore, “Mr. Edwards’s Room” is preferred.
And are these sentences both correct:
The coach was the pupils’.
The coach was owned by the pupils’.
The first sentence is correct. The second sentence does not need an apostrophe since it is not the possessive form of pupils. While The coach was owned by the pupils is grammatically correct, this is an unusual sentence in that pupils do not normally own a coach, whether a human being or a mode of transportation!
how can we use Apostrophe s with a name like “Elizabeth II”? do we add s to Elizabeth of to II?
Since we would say, “Queen Elizabeth the Second’s coronation was the first to be televised,” it would be written “Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation was the first to be televised.”
Here’s an odd one for you. My name ends in an S. When people using it want to indicate possession, such as saying
“Those are Grates (‘s/s’ ?) shoes, where should the apostrophe be placed, and should there be an extra S or not?
You may follow Rule 2 of the “Apostrophes” section or the rule in our blog “Apostrophes with Names Ending in s, ch, or z” which says, “To show singular possession of a name ending in s, ch, or z, use the apostrophe and another s.” Therefore, “Those are Grates’s shoes” is correct.
Hi Jane,
Which is correct: Michael Jones’ house or Michael Jones’s house.
Many thanks,
Ian
The note under Rule 2 in the “Appostrophes” section of Grammarbook.com states, ” Although names ending in s or an s sound are not required to have the second s added in possessive form, it is preferred.” Therefore, I recommend Michael Jones’s house.
Is it childrens meals – children’s meals – or – childrens’ meals?
Rule 4 in the “Apostrophes” section of Grammarbook.com says, “To show plural possession, make the noun plural first. Then immediately use the apostrophe.” Therefore, children’s meals is correct.
Last name Childs — how do I punctuate this…..??
The Childs purchased the Olive street house in 1948, lived in it for two years and then left for duties abroad.
Or is this good…………??
thx……..billy
The plural for the name Childs is the Childses. If the first names are known, it could be “Bob and Betty Childs purchased the Olive Street house in 1948, lived in it for two years, and then left for duties abroad.”
How do we properly say the Ryan Sisters’s CD launch?
Thanks,
Maria
Rule 4 in the “Apostrophes” section of Grammarbook.com states,”To show plural possession, make the noun plural first. Then immediately use the apostrophe.” The plural of the noun sister is sisters, then use the appostrophe to show possession.
The Ryan Sisters’ CD launch.
For 6 years you have helped everyone who has posted with their questions and concerns here.
I have gone through and read them all; I want to thank you for continuing to help us, years later, and for being so knowledgeable and helpful.
Thank you!
I appreciate your kind comment, Shawn.